Bo Stern-Brady Returns

[00:00:02] Speaker A: From Westside Church in Bend, Oregon. This is behind the message in this podcast. We take you behind what we teach here. Westside. I'm Ben Fleming. [00:00:17] Speaker B: And I'm Evan Earwicker. Welcome to another episode, a special episode of the podcast, because we have a guest today. [00:00:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Fastest jump in we've ever had. Because Evan was trying to get me to stop singing Mulan and. [00:00:31] Speaker B: Yeah, well, we're going to talk about Mulan, but we need to introduce the guest and then we will talk about 90s movies and music, obviously. [00:00:38] Speaker A: Fair enough. Yeah. [00:00:39] Speaker B: Yeah. So our guest today is Bo Stern. Brady. And Bo was here long before any of us were really Pioneered the West side as a church. Not really, but in the beginning. But she was here a long time, and she now is the lead pastor at B4 Church in Beaverton, Oregon. We're thrilled to have her back. And she spoke this past weekend. Hi, boy. [00:01:01] Speaker C: Hi, guys. I'm thrilled to be here. I have been here longer than any of you were on the planet, actually. [00:01:06] Speaker B: That's true. [00:01:07] Speaker A: She said it. None of us. [00:01:08] Speaker C: I've been here longer. I've been everywhere longer. [00:01:12] Speaker A: And you're a youth pastor, right? [00:01:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Bo, I met you when I was 11 years old. It seems like a while ago. And I remember very specifically that trip to Montana for my very first youth summer camp. And we were caravanning and you were driving, I think it was a green Jeep Laredo. Is that right? Does that. [00:01:36] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that would have been. [00:01:38] Speaker B: I remember driving specifically by Biggs Junction on the Columbia River Gorge in that Jeep with you driving. And I was, I think, almost 12, so. [00:01:48] Speaker A: Wow. [00:01:48] Speaker B: I don't remember much from that trip. Very specifically. I remember being in that Jeep on the gorge. [00:01:53] Speaker A: Bo, what's your earliest memory of Evan? [00:01:56] Speaker B: Oh, boy. [00:01:59] Speaker C: Evan came to a. I think he came to a conference our church did, before his family was coming to our church. And I remember thinking, what an extraordinary human. I really, truly do. I remember him thinking, he is way ahead of his time. [00:02:13] Speaker B: That's very generous. Yeah. [00:02:16] Speaker A: So scary. [00:02:19] Speaker B: What's your first memory of Ben? [00:02:20] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. [00:02:22] Speaker C: Oh, Ben. Yeah. That same youth camp we talked about on Sunday. I remember speaking, thinking, oh, he's got it. He's definitely got it. He's a. He's a pastor and he's. Yeah, I believe it. When Evan said, we're going to reach out and see if we can hire him, I'm like, oh, swing for the fences. See what you get. [00:02:43] Speaker A: That's very kind. So I. I've never told you this, Beau But I was listening to your guys sermons regularly from Sundays at Westside while I was in Klamath still. And you had an illustration in one of your sermons where you talked about a guest speaker at a youth camp and how he was kind of setting this ridiculous. It was a smoking hot wife kind of wild expectations kind of all the purity culture kind of movement and you were, you were kind of critical of it. And I was like wrecked for about a week wondering what I said at the youth camp I preached at because this was like three weeks after. And I was like, I didn't, I didn't say any of that. I don't think. Did I do that? It was an anxiety ridden week. [00:03:37] Speaker C: I'm sorry. That's why we should never use actual illustration. It always just. [00:03:42] Speaker A: No, it wasn't your fault. It was my ridiculous insecurity. [00:03:45] Speaker B: You probably tuned in being like, I hope she mentions how good of a preacher. [00:03:48] Speaker A: Totally that was what I was searching for. She would stop everything to reference this preacher at youth camp. [00:03:55] Speaker C: Oh my goodness. [00:03:56] Speaker B: She did. But not like you wanted. That's so funny. Yeah, no, we have a long, long history here at the church, all of us. And Lindsay, you showed up. What year did you show up at Westside? [00:04:07] Speaker D: 2004. [00:04:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:04:09] Speaker D: Early memories of Beau, early memories of Bo. She was the youth pastor in 180 and very like a super integral part of my formative years, like 18 to 21 ish, like strong woman figure, leading preaching. Yeah, she was just quite the role model for me in those years. It's weird to talk about you like you're not here, you're here. [00:04:39] Speaker C: Beau. I love this. [00:04:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:41] Speaker D: But no, nothing but great memories. [00:04:43] Speaker C: She was such a good woman. She was. [00:04:48] Speaker B: She's looking down on us from somewhere. [00:04:50] Speaker A: And may she rest in Beaverton. [00:04:55] Speaker D: That's really funny. Anyway, nothing but love. Nothing but good memories. [00:04:59] Speaker A: So before we jump into kind of recap on some of the text as we do have a little post game of the message. Can you talk about taking the job at B4 over the last couple years? Because the take. And you can, you can interject and tell me I was wrong. Anyway, the take from me over the last knowing you over the last eight years has been, you know, you've always maybe been a little reluctant to want to be the lead pastor or anything. There was never any indication of that from you. You enjoyed writing, enjoyed speaking. And then this happened a couple years ago. Not just being a lead pastor, but a lead pastor, really large church with a long heritage in Foursquare can you talk about the decision to take that job and to jump into that leadership spot? [00:05:45] Speaker C: Yeah, I was. I was hired in December of 22 just to fill a. They hired me as like, director spiritual formation. And it was a kind of undefined, ambiguous role. And then 10 weeks later, we found ourselves in a position without a pastor. And I think it was. There was a really big staff here, and a lot of them were really going through the turmoil of what all the implications of the moment. It was a stormy season, for sure, and I didn't have the same root system here. And so it was sort of a thing of filling a leadership void at that moment. And so then the denomination made me the interim pastor, which honestly was so far out of reach. I never considered being a senior pastor. I think being a teaching pastor is the best seat in the house. It's just so nice. You just get to teach and talk to people and do a thing and not make decisions, and the buck doesn't even pause at your desk. It's just very nice. And so I just never. And I also, at the time was a newlywed. And I really value my family and the investment that a big family requires. And so I just thought, there's just no way. And then. So I did say no to it during the. It was an almost a year surge for the new lead, and I was like, nope, not me. Nope, not me. Never known a happy senior pastor. Don't want to be one. Not going to happen. And then the Lord really just spoke to me distinctly one night. And honestly, it has to do. You guys will understand. It has to do with 900 Wall, the restaurant it had. It was this whole visual picture of what I felt like he wanted to do here at before in the next couple of years and shared it with Steve Mickle, who you may have heard of him, he's our district supervisor. Yeah, I shared it with him. He was in charge of picking the pastor. And I said, I don't know if this is God or not, but I would be willing to step into this role for a year if that would be helpful. And then the council was like, say five years and you've got a deal. [00:07:50] Speaker B: So then I landed. [00:07:51] Speaker C: And being in lead is different than being an interim. I actually think I would really love being an interim in my old age. I like that. Getting in the mess of it and trying to figure it out and whiteboarding things and helping people heal from however they got to that transition. I really loved that part and part of my word for stepping into this role Was I told the denomination I am unapologetically not a father. But I do think that right now, this church needs a mother. And right now, in order to heal and to build trust, the church really needs mom. So honestly, my first year, my first maybe 18 months here, I counted on my planner. There was 1200 conversations about one specific issue over and over and over and over again. Just these conversations. It was just like lots of conversations. And that's what I've always said parenting is. It's just lots and lots of conversations. So that's how I landed here. I'm as surprised as anyone. [00:08:53] Speaker B: All that raw ambition that you displayed that got you kicked out of here actually makes sense where you've ended up. I'm kidding. I like that. I like that you say you're unapologetically a father, which for good reason. [00:09:05] Speaker A: And unapologetically not a father. [00:09:08] Speaker B: What did I say? [00:09:09] Speaker A: A father. [00:09:10] Speaker B: A father. [00:09:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:10] Speaker B: You skipped the not, not, not important knot. Yeah. But you've embraced this, like, mother figure to that. I think Ben is more the zany uncle of west side, for sure. I don't know what I am. [00:09:22] Speaker A: But you're the father. [00:09:23] Speaker B: Yeah, you are. Whatever. But talk to us about that, because that's not a lot of lead pastors that are women in our movement. There are several, many, but not a lot. And specifically this relationship between the lead pastor and the church maybe is new territory for a lot of people that haven't experienced being pastored by a mom figure. How has that been maybe an edge or a benefit to how you're able to lead? [00:09:59] Speaker C: Well, I mean, one of the benefits, I think, and this is just gut level honest, is that there's a. With the recent history of church scandals, there are some ways that we don't trust male pastors and that we do trust female pastors. And so there's that There is a feeling, I think, with women that you're. You're probably. You're probably doing the. Stepping into the Deborah role and. And patch things up and then hand it off to somebody else. You know, I think. I think people feel oftentimes a comfort with a. With a mom figure, and I can trust her with my heart and my secrets, at least for women. It was funny because one. One man talked to me on the day I was installed, and he said, you know, I think this is great because men and women always learn from men and women, and it's so good for us to learn from each other. Instead, we can learn from both genders. And I was like, what church have you been going to? I've been learning from men all my life. Women have been hearing from men every Sunday all their lives. Women go to male pastors with their problems. That's who they have. And men are often like, oh, I don't know what I would do if I had a problem. I couldn't go to a female senior pastor. But it's honestly what, like, the life that women have had in the church for ages is that we hear from men and men's perspectives, and that's fine, but I think it's really good to learn from both. And so our church is having an experience right now where the plans are being set by someone who thinks like a mom. And I think there might be a little bit of a gentleness to that that maybe isn't inherent in men. I don't want to categorize too strictly or box things up, but I do think, at least for me in this role, I just have a different tilt in the way that I lead than the male pastors who have gone before me here. And they were great. I mean, I stand in giant shoes of Ron Mel and Randy Remington, the amazing, gifted leaders that they are. And I've had to really make peace with being not them and being who I am. [00:12:16] Speaker A: So do you find yourself relating to. As we've gone through Ephesians, there's a lot of old things. Well, it's all old things. Right. But there's a lot of things that I go, okay, yeah, that's a piece of that. And grace comes in here. I don't know if Paul's message of unity has ever stood out to me quite like it has this time. And then going through the other epistles and going, oh, my gosh, Paul seems to be pulling out all of the stops to not solve every single, single issue, but try to create a unified church in all of these different places. And exactly what you're talking about. There's a million different issues that you are having to understand. At the very least, when you come into the leadership position. There's the heritage of Randy Remington and Rob Mel. There's the difficulty that the church is coming out of, as you described, a stormy season. There is, for a lot of people, a female pastor when they've only had male pastors. Do you kind of identify with Paul in the middle of this? Of like, oh, my gosh, there is so much going on. How do we find the unity in the middle of this? [00:13:21] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. In fact, as you state that, I'm, like, really discouraged because that's exactly what it is. Like, ah, shoot. That's my. [00:13:29] Speaker A: Whoops, whoops, whoops, whoops. [00:13:32] Speaker C: I take it back. [00:13:33] Speaker A: Everything's fine. [00:13:35] Speaker C: I think it's interesting, too, because the thing you didn't mention in that is there's also the inherent suitcase full of baggage I bring to this as a human person that influences all of it, too. And we see that come up in Paul's story. A lot of times I'm dealing with that. Like, I was talking to another pastor this morning of another church, and we were talking about how Paul says, in one place, I have no one with me. I have no, please send Timothy. He's all I have. I have no one. Everyone else has deserted me. And then he goes, well, not this guy. And that other guy is there too. And, well, I mean, I know I'm being dramatic, but this is really hard. But we all bring this stuff to the party. Our own insecurities and our own vanities and our own inadequacies. And so Paul, in Ephesians, I think, more than any other letter, sets the stage for the leader in God's house by saying, this is my prayer for you, that you would know him more, that you would know him better. And so I found that inside of this. I'm 59, and I've been through lots of ministry failure and some arguable success, but I have. I have had a steady dance with humility through this whole process. Being a woman in ministry is innately humbling. It's probably also humbling to be a man in ministry. I just don't have that experience. So when I always take every situation back to okay, the part of this situation that I'm facing right now is so that I will know him more. I want to know him more. And I don't want to let go of what God is trying to do in me while I'm praying about what God is wanting to do in the church, or while I'm putting my energy into how God leads the church, if I lead this church and fail to know him more, I have failed. And so bringing those things together so that he's building his church and he's also building the person that he wants me to be is really important to me. And that has been probably a bigger trick than I thought when I took it. I really did think that I was bringing a fully developed self to the job. And now I'm realizing that the job is intended to further develop who I am. [00:15:58] Speaker B: What is your hope to hand off when you're Done. Whether that's in, you know, tomorrow, after this conversation or 15 years from now, what do you hope to hand off and who do you hope to be at the end of this leadership journey for you? [00:16:16] Speaker C: Gosh, what a great question. I'm going to write that in my journal and ask myself that. That's really good. I think that I have found one nice thing about being me right now, about being a transitional kind of leader. I don't want to say it too many times because then my church thinks I'm not going to stay. And I love this church and I want to be here for a long time, even if it's not in this role. And I'll stay in this role as long as Jesus wants me to. But when I said the nature of me being older and not ever wanting this as the pinnacle of my career or my vocation or whatever, is that when I, like when I hire people here, some pastors I've known, when they hire people, they're like, are you going to try to take my job? And when I hire people, I'm like, are you going to try to take my job? That would be fun. That'd be great. I really have, like, very little ego invested in this. I want to. Every day I pray for who's coming after me, because I know my job is to build something that will hand off well. And so the word I have from God that came to me probably that two weeks into my role here was, you have five years to get this ship saddle ready. And I can't tell you that I know for certain what that means. I do know that more and more of that word is becoming visible to me as I walk through it. And there are always going to be. I mean, we experience the turnover that everyone does. I think ours be a little bit more highlighted because there are people that just don't want a woman pastor. And there were people who were okay with an interim female, but. But then when I was made the permanently, they're like, no, that's not for me, and that's fine. But I. I want to make sure that I am leading according to this template. So we want to get the ship battle ready. We want to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit, and that's taking us somewhere. This isn't just to keep everything steady. We don't want to just anchor down in the storm. We want to lift sails and go. And so what I know we're moving toward is hope, healing, freedom, and flourishing. Those are our words. We're moving toward those four words in every possible way. So, like, we baptized 30 people on Sunday while I was at. At Westside. They were doing that here. And I felt like that's new life. All of those people stepped into hope, and now how do we get them to the next step spaces, healing and freedom and a flourishing life. That's what I want for the whole church. And so if you're doing that right in a reproducing church, by the time I get five years down the road, I'll have more flourishing people, but I'll also have more people just stepping in. I think a church always is healthy when it has all of those things new and old. Just like a family, you want to have new life and old life. All those things are important. So that's what I hope. A church with a better connected group, a group of. We don't have. We need a greater sense of interdependence in our church, and we're working hard on that right now. So I think that's what I am hoping and I'm hoping more of the picture will develop to me and to my team, because everybody brings a picture of it to the table. That's valuable as we go. [00:19:37] Speaker A: Can you describe how your view of flourishing has changed over the course of your life, especially in ministry? Because flourishing could be a word used by kind of the charlatan mlm. You know, it's that success. We're going to. We're going to thrive. Right. Maybe thrive is a little bit more of that word. I know obviously that's not your heart and that's not inherent to the word. [00:20:03] Speaker B: But. [00:20:04] Speaker A: But I think about you, who has had a lot of success and a lot of. And we are very familiar with a lot of the pain and the difficulty and the suffering and the questions. Can you describe maybe how the idea of flourishing has shifted and changed over the course of your time in ministry? [00:20:21] Speaker C: Yes. I can tell you in one sentence. Flourishing is a sense of being safe in the love of God and safe inside my own skin. To me, it's simply that if I am at home inside my own soul, that I know it is safe to live as myself in this world and inside the love of God, then that to me is the flourishing life. And all the external stuff around it either feeds that or tries to steal from it. But it doesn't create it. It just doesn't. It doesn't create it. When you find the right stuff, spouse, or when you get the right amount of money, or when you get, you know, because that's the prosperity Gospel is what you collect makes your life full and flourishing. But the Jesus way is how you, your interior. That what is going on in there, what is cultivated and growing and multiplying inside of you in terms of safety and peace. And I can live inside myself without angst. It's the. I think it's Jehoshaphat at the end of the end of their big battle, it says, and the people had peace on every side. That has always been my thing of I want to live with peace on every side in my own soul. That doesn't mean there will be external peace on every side, but I believe it's possible internally. So that, to me, is the flourishing life. [00:21:46] Speaker B: It reminds me, I saw recently a video of all people, Will Smith, talking about the infamous Oscars moment where he slaps Chris Rock and then he wins best Actor right after, which is just such an absurd, like, collision of a really, really bad moment in your life and what's supposed to be really, you know, the highlight of your whole career and what you've been working towards. And he was making the point for him that rock bottom and the very peak of his success pose the same threat to his own ability to basically thrive, to flourish. And I hadn't heard it compared that way. And especially with such a vivid illustration of. It's the same thing whether you're depressed at the bottom or you're at the top and realizing there's nowhere else to go, if you're not somehow finding that at home in Jesus and in the love of Christ, all the other stuff actually can lead you to the same point of emptiness. Right. So oftentimes people are thinking, well, if I just had that spouse, that success, that money, like you're saying, well, that would get me there. And no. And for you, Beau, walking through the depths of grief and sorrow, and now you're in this. What's on paper is, you know, this peak career and ministry and you're leading this legacy with church. And it's all wonderful, but it sounds like, you know, for you, you've discovered that that's not where, you know, that deep flourishing happens. [00:23:20] Speaker C: Yeah. And, you know, you never know more where your flourishing happens than when you. You experience famine in the area that you thought was bringing you the feast. And so, I mean, as pastors, I don't know if you guys have run into any hard moments, but when you hit the hard moment, it's like I did. I had a friend once who told me, you, you know who a person really is when they're hungry, when they're truly star. Like a. They're truly starving. You know who a person is when you know what they'll do to get food. And almost every issue I ran into with people that I lead or people in the whatever, I always say, what are they hungry for that's making them behave this way. There's something they're hungry for. And so for me, flourishing means we sit at the table of the love of Jesus every day. And that in itself is satisfying. It's not meant to be all that we have, but it is meant to be enough when it's all that we have. So that has been a big, big point of learning for me here and really just not. I just. I mean, I just can't hang my hat on what people think of me because there will be people think I'm great and people who think, you know, I shouldn't be allowed to speak or even just. I mean, it's easy as a woman to blame everything on. Like, they've got this complementarian viewpoint, but oftentimes they just don't like me. Like, I'm not their cup of tea. I'm not for everyone. And making peace with all of that and still being able to sit at the table and feast is a really big deal. And I think it's advanced Christianity, and I'm still trying to learn. [00:25:01] Speaker A: Reminds me of something that you preached during your time here, that we got a lot of attention. It was so inspiring, was this idea of there's the cheap seats and they make a lot of noise, but we can't necessarily listen to everything. And then some are a little bit closer. Some are courtside, and then some are coaches. Right. And that's been a wrestle. I know for me, personally, as a leader and in life, to say I can't hang my hat on the opinions that everyone is bringing into the table. I just can't do that because I will feel the highest of high and the lowest of low and really virtually no consistency or in between. And I have to create some voices around me that can be critical of me or can have input so that I might shift and change and grow. Do you still find that scenario to be true for you today, that you need this similar framework because you can't listen to everybody? But here's two people that I let into my life. [00:25:58] Speaker C: Absolutely. And it is exactly two people. I mean, our leadership team is fantastic, and I love them and trust them with my leadership and the leadership of the church. But when I took this job, I also set up a council of Women who I meet with and they know everything. They know all the secrets, they know all the hidden fears, they just know everything. And they speak into my life really honestly and in such an encouraging way. It's really important to pick the right people, but they've been really important to me as I walk this out and telling me who I am and who I'm not. And they work hard to listen to Jesus on that. And so I really, I just, I can't live without that. I have to have, I have to have good input and I have to have critical input or I'm not surrounding myself with the right people. [00:26:51] Speaker B: You just mentioned to go back a little bit, you talked about the temptation to hunker down versus as a leader to, you know, hoist the sails and go somewhere. You also talked about this in your sermon to Westside this past weekend about the parable of the talents and how there is this fear based reaction that masquerades as responsibility. But it's fear to hold on to what we've been given and to not break it and to protect it. And yet that's the very thing in the parable that the Master not only is unpleased with but like condemns as a wicked thing to do, which seems overly harsh and yet seems like Jesus is making a point. I know for us as a couple guys who have inherited or been entrusted with a legacy church, you know, that has a history and has been successful and probably similarly in Beaverton, and there's this sense of here's something that has been really, really successful and big and impressive and there's a temptation to say, okay, I don't want to break it versus this. Let's hoist the sails and actually go to where Jesus is leading us in a new season. What are those things that you have to push against, I guess to say, no, we are going to move forward. We're not just going to try to build to a safe spot. [00:28:13] Speaker C: Yeah, you know, I think we all inherit something here. And even the idea of the legacy church is a bit of a loaded title label because it does imply what has been is what is right, what has been. And it's your job coming in. And I've talked to several of our foursquare legacy pastors about this. What has been is. It's your job to get it back to that. And the word legacy in this context is a little backward looking. And so I've had to really guard against that. I mean, B4 was the biggest church in Oregon under Ron, Mel and It was a different era, and he was amazing, of course, but it was a different era in Christendom. And now we're post pandemic. We have a profoundly bifurcated church in terms of politics. And like, I've even asked myself, what is the future of the Pacific Northwest megachurch if you haven't chosen one side or the other politically, if you're trying to be a centrist, you're trying to say, we're going to follow the way of Jesus, which is agnostic, of government structures and things. And so I have to look at that as being a little bit different than what they pastored. But also when I come in, I mean, there's change that we make. Every change we make in the church is destabilizing to some degree. And I've watched pastors step into churches and just break stuff because they want to put their mark on it. And the destabilization isn't worth what they get from that change. So I've had to really weigh, is the fallout from this change? Is the destabilization going to be worth it? Is it going to bring something that Jesus inherently wants to happen here and cannot happen unless we move this thing out of the way? Example is ironically, the way we extinguish the candles on Christmas Eve, that there was a long tradition of how they extinguished the candles. Ron Mill started it. He did it the same way every year. He said the same jokes. When he did it, people love it. And when another pastor came in later, he changed it. He wanted to do it differently, and it caused so much uproar. And so I particularly love this way. There. There are just reasons I don't particularly love it. And I was at first like, no, we're not doing that. And then I thought, really, has God specifically given me an inherently better way to extinguish the candles on Christmas Eve, or am I doing this because I am full of myself and I want to make my own mark on this thing and I don't want to do that. So that's been important because that tradition really did represent for many people. I was 6 years old and 8 years old and grew up in this church and did this. And I'm like, why would I want to take that from them when I don't have anything more life giving to replace it with? So that wasn't a change that was worth it. There are other changes that have to happen. And so my question keeps being, what is sacred and beautiful and what is old and an obstacle? How? What are we unbuilding in order to build forward. Because I would love to say, I'm building only good things, but whoever comes after me is going to unbuild some bow stuff. So I want to really listen to Jesus, because change is important, but it also can be dangerous and destructive if we haven't weighed it. Right. [00:31:50] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. I don't know if that's such a great example. No, for sure. Because it would be irresponsible for us to lead like Ron, Mel and Ken Johnson, because think of how different Bend is. Right. Think of how different Beaverton is. It would be silly and thoughtless. And I don't think any of those leaders, if they could spend time with us sitting at the desk now, would say, no, you should do it exactly like me. They would say, no, I had to be strategic and creative inside of my own context, and so should you be. But, yeah, some of those things are sacred. And it's funny, every time this comes up at Christmas Eve, funny enough like you say, I have this temptation to be like, well, we could really shake it up. Because I am sitting there going, we've done it this way for the last eight years. And then we all sit in this, a meeting, and it's usually actually Lindsay that goes, people want to sing Joy to the World in Silent Night. Just like, leave them alone. Why do that? It is sacred and it does actually feel kind of timeless. And maybe that's an underestimated piece of pastoring that we're called to a time and to a context and to a people that have never appeared here before. And the sacred things can help us lead that new thing. Right? [00:33:08] Speaker C: Yeah. I think the two questions that have been guiding me in that, in exactly that pursuit are what's possible here and what's at stake? So what is. What rides in the balance of this decision? What's possible if I'm courageous enough to make it, and what's at stake if I make it. And for me, you know, with the candle lighting, there was more at stake than what I realized. And it just didn't matter to me. But just because it doesn't matter to me doesn't mean it doesn't matter. And it's just. It's a whole. It goes back to your before, what you were saying about all these things spinning at once. It's that. And you just have to take it decision by decision, I think, and prayer by prayer. [00:33:53] Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm grateful for, you know, Pastor Ken Johnson here, Pastor Steve, when he's not with you and he's Here, I would think the same about Randy for you. But the support of those who were leading in those ways that people still remember and wish for their willingness to be in the room and say, stop it, we're in a new season, or we're following these leaders now. And I've felt that both, from what I've heard, but also just knowing Ken and Steve, I'm sure over the years that even the last couple years, those conversations happen where people say, oh, if only we could. And to have leaders that have gone before us have our back means so much. And I don't know that we'll ever know all the conversations that have happened to boost us as leaders and to kind of quell those side comments and conversations. [00:34:52] Speaker A: I would say that was one of the best things about our transition, was we were so lucky to have Steve, who I did know would never entertain negative conversations about that in the transition. Even if Steve had critique, which, you know, he did for us, and he would coach us and he would say, maybe not this way, but this way. But I would. I knew in those conversations that what somebody would say, if we could just get back to the old days, Steve would look at them and go, no way. That's irresponsible. And these guys have a new opportunity and responsibility ahead of them. [00:35:22] Speaker C: Yeah. And people who don't have. Often it's people who don't have children in the mix that are wanting to hold on to what it was. But when you have children in the mix, you realize you see it in your home. The world is changing, and they need the church to lead them somewhere that is life giving and good. And God has enough dispensation of grace and gifts and miraculous things and excitement and joy. And for every spot on the timeline, we don't have to run back and get it from another place. [00:36:00] Speaker A: That's really good. [00:36:01] Speaker B: Just this morning, Clara, my daughter, was listening to a popular Christian artist that's very, very popular right now. And all the kids in our youth group, I guess, are into It's Forest Frank. I can say the name. It's not a big secret. [00:36:15] Speaker A: I've heard the name. [00:36:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm not familiar, but now I'm getting familiar. And the song was playing this morning, and I looked at Alyssa. I'm like, this is terrible music. And I said, but you know what? I don't think I'm the target audience. She said, you're not the target audience. [00:36:30] Speaker A: Forrest doesn't care about you. [00:36:33] Speaker B: And I don't think it's terrible music. It was grading at 7:30 in the morning. But I have that sense really happy. If we're doing our job well, we should be in church and say, I don't think I'm the target audience for this. And that's good because we are trying to reach our kids and our kids friends and a new generation of people to fall in love with Jesus. And it may feel and look differently. And the older folks I respect the most in this life are the ones who get that, who realize it's not all about me in whatever generation we're in, it's about what God wants to do next. And so such just mad respect for the Dorothy Williams of the world. But she's still here at 96 years old and just so unwilling to make it about her preferences. And that's not her relationship with the church. And it's beautiful. [00:37:29] Speaker C: Yeah, she's beautiful. [00:37:31] Speaker A: That's attached to the conversation we've been having about 90s music and 2000s music, where I think it was just you two that were in the room that I looked at and said people started naming the bands and the names of the songs. And then I searched a couple of them and just hit play real quick to remember the intro line or whatever. And I looked at these guys and I said, do we ever get to have this again? We don't listen to a song at 45, do we? And then turn 65 and go, oh, that song. And maybe we do, but it's certainly tempting and maybe even natural in the music realm to all of us attach to this 15 year era and say that's the greatest era of music of all time. And then never have it again. And the challenge of discipleship is to move us beyond that. Right? Because there is a responsibility in our 20s and then maybe a different one in our 70s. And that's part of the way of Jesus is to continue to come back to the well of new leadership and insight and wisdom and to grow within the church, within all that. We don't just get to disconnect and say, boom, I'm playing Green Day and I don't care what you have to say for us, Frank. Like that's what I'm listening to. [00:38:37] Speaker B: No, listen to the way weekend, Ben. [00:38:39] Speaker A: They're gonna love it. I can't do it. [00:38:44] Speaker B: That's amazing. Anyway, Lindsey, give us your top 90s 2000 songs that you shared this morning on the chat. [00:38:52] Speaker D: Well, the context of the question was my husband's band needs some sweet cover songs. So I think the best move for a cover band is to find songs that are not your genre. And you take them and you make them your genre. You make them your own. So I recomm. I don't actually know the genre of this band, but I just threw it out there anyways. Cause I'm pretty sure it's not Backstreet Boys. So I said Backstreet Boys, Aaliyah, Enrique, Iglesias. You take those pop songs and you make them cool and your crowd's gonna know it, everyone's gonna sing along, and you're gonna do it way better probably than the original artist. And I just think that's the sweet spot right there. [00:39:35] Speaker A: It's great insight. It is for all the COVID bands listening to this podcast out there. [00:39:39] Speaker B: And I'm telling you, you just throw a medley in there too. [00:39:42] Speaker D: A medley. [00:39:43] Speaker B: And people just are gonna love it. [00:39:45] Speaker D: They're gonna love it like a medley 90s R&B medley, but do it like folk style. [00:39:50] Speaker C: Ugh. [00:39:52] Speaker B: I'm dead beau for you. What's nostalgic pop culture like? Not just music, but is there a zone or a time or a kind of pop culture that. [00:40:02] Speaker C: Yeah, it's been my kids. For teenagers. Yeah, it's that time. Because when I was a teenager, I was in a pretty strict only listen to Christian music. I feel like I kind of missed the era. And it was a pretty great one. There was a lot of really good music in the early 80s and the late 70s. But so, yeah, it is Backstreet Boys and Christina Aguilera and all those things were part of that, I think back to. And I'm like, yeah, I always have loved a good boy band. I really do. The silliest, most wonderful thing. [00:40:35] Speaker A: The silliest. [00:40:37] Speaker B: That's amazing. Good. Well, Bo, we really appreciate your time both this weekend, of course, but then to take time again and talk to us more. We're just going to keep asking for attention from you as we've been doing for decades. But thank you so much and thank you for stepping back in after a couple years since you've spoken here, and especially that 9:30 service. You could just feel the crowd when they found out that you were in the room. Room just responds so warmly. And that doesn't always happen after a few years. So anyway, everybody loves you still. [00:41:11] Speaker C: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. [00:41:13] Speaker A: Yeah, you're the best, Bo. [00:41:15] Speaker B: Yeah. And we're gonna. We'll have to have you back before two years go by again, and it'll be lovely. [00:41:21] Speaker A: So we just at least come over and get lunch or something, you know? Baby steps. [00:41:26] Speaker B: Be great. All right. We'll be back next week as we wrap up Ephesians in a couple. Couple weeks, actually, right? [00:41:34] Speaker A: Yeah, a couple weeks. Yeah. West side one's kind of winding down as far as the small groups, but the teaching. Couple more weeks. [00:41:40] Speaker B: Yeah, it's been great. All right, we'll see you next time on behind the Message.